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New Dev Blog - Learning skills are going away

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 24 post(s)
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.11.25 13:24:00 - [1] \o/ I can't wait to find out what the other surprise is going to be.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.11.25 13:47:00 - [2] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Grimpak the problem about learning skills is, they are just a nuisance, because it's pretty much mandatory to learn them to a relatively high level. Pretty all skills are a nuisance. And they are mandatory to learn before you can use the goodies. Just saying ... the argument "we just want to make it easier for new players" is a very slippery slope. This case here, well yeah, it is okay. That is largely the whole point of the change. There is no point in maintaining timesink nuisance skills that you need in order to stay competative(learning skills), since there is a ton of regular skills that you need to train anyway before you can do things and do them properly. Maxing them will take close to two decades at this point and more will be added as time goes on, so there is no point in having people wasting time on timesink skills. With the loss of learning skills nothing of value was lost. The early EVE experience just lost a ton of pointless tedium and good riddance to it.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.11.25 16:40:00 - [3] Originally by: Yeo San ok, skilling learning points sucks and makes eve for newbs unbearable, because you have to train 1,5 month of learning skills, until you can skill something useful. to make eve faster and easier to enter, it seems ok. but I don't like the 12 undistributable points. if I understood the plans correctly, it means that there are NO specializations anymore in eve, that the skillpoint remap is history and that we all have to live with useless attribut points. example: the next remap, that i planned for me beginning next year would have brought 26xx sp/h because of specialisation remap. the new graphic-magic of ccp reduces this to average learning speed as all are doomed to live with the same crappy stats, right? so if I understand it correctly, it's a gift for all those with crappy learning skills, like newbs and impatient idiots. and it's a punishment for all highly trained and specialized players ... Don't worry you didn't get it right. You can't redistribute attribute points gained from learning skills now. Since the extra 12 points are given as a compensation for removing your learning skills, they can't be redistributed either. Attribute remapping will work just as it does today.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.11.25 16:50:00 - [4] Originally by: Lactasia Originally by: Tonto Auri Originally by: Lactasia Wouldn't this warrant a neural re-map for everyone? Some people have remapped for the learning skills!? Erm? Remapping for skills that taking up a month, two at best? Don't be silly. Besides, there's **** ton of really useful skills that have same base attributes. I think its a significant enough change to the atributes/characters that it warrants a remap to everyone. In every MMo I know when there is a significant & major change to characters a "respec" is in order. I wouldn't mind a remap, but this doesn't really change things. The source of where you got your attribute points just changed, but your attributes will either increase or stay pretty much the same so you won't suffer from the change. Not a significan't or a major change to attributes or to anyones plans, since using your only remap just for learning skills is pretty idiotic and everyone else is affected in a positive way or not affected at all.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.11.25 18:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Smoking Blunts can we get the skill points realocated to another character on that account? i have a lot fo alts which needed learning skills to get them trained up for labs and cynos and now they are trained i wont need to add any skills. would be good if that sp can be trasnfered to that accounts main. has ccp answered this? do we just petition after it changes over? The amount of SP a character has will not change. All characters just get to redistribute the SP they had in learning skills to other skills. There will be no transfer of SP between characters.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.11.26 10:19:00 - [6] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 26/11/2010 10:29:39 Originally by: Setsuna Ratsetsu Hi, This might be slightly off topic, but in the latest blog I read Quote: "Also, recycling alts is against the rules and will get you banned" can someone confirm this as I can't see anywhere in eula about recycling alts. It's been in for a long time. Basicly it applies to people that used disposable alts to suicide others in highsec until their sec rating was so low, that they couldn't stay there anymore. Instead of raising their sec status back and go suicide again, like they should have done, they recycled the alts in an effort to bypass the negative affects of the sec status mechanic entirely and keep suiciding people indefinitely. Recycling your alts for reasons other than bypassing such game mechanics has always been ok.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.11.26 11:01:00 - [7] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 26/11/2010 11:01:45 Originally by: Au' Tena perhaps my question wasn't quit clear; i got the part for partly trained skills (finished levels) but what about the ones i was training at that moment and havent finished when they flip the switch. ..just wanted to make sure ( to max my redistributable skillpoints ..) au' He got what you meant and the devblog answered it too. You get every single SP refunded, that you had in any of the learning skills at the time of the change.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.11.26 19:57:00 - [8] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 26/11/2010 19:58:25 Originally by: Takseen Originally by: Grendel Gefahrstoffe so... lemme get this straight i'm going to loose approximately 38 attribute points, you're going to give me 12 and i'm supposed to be in awe and happy about a 'gift'???? seriously now, you can perty it up all you want, but a savage screw in the butt is a screw in the butt I thought learning skills were meant to weed out impatient people who don't read instructions carefully. The dev blog was perfectly clear to anyone who took the time to read it, I would have thought. Don't forget the uneducated and the immature. All of whom, based on this thread, somehow managed to bypass the learning skill filter and some of them even managed to train all the learning skills to maximum too. So much of for the argument of learning skills requiring intelligence to understand and utilize properly. Based on this it seems like getting rid of learning skills was the right choice. CCP is just getting rid of a filter that wasn't working properly anyway and was instead filtering out people who enjoy fun and who want to actively play the game, instead of spinning a ship in a station while learning to learn skills.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.11.27 13:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Isaiah Harms Pressing a button and waiting for a few months is what makes EVE a diffucult and deep game. Personally I think that is just a stupid way to design a game and has nothing to do with actual difficulty or depth. Difficulty and depth is part of the gameplay and should require playing the game to learn instead of just waiting, but to each his own I guess.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.11.29 10:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Rupicolous Originally by: Ranka Mei Originally by: Rupicolous All Skills are meta, simply because they are passive. That's a rather silly statement. Only the learning skills are meta, nothing else. Period. When you say "period" do you mean the end of your sentence or simply the small dot that signifies (my turn) ? Propably she means that anyone who knows what the word meta in this instance means can see the original message she replied to is nonsense.

Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.12.05 11:24:00 - [11] Originally by: comb4t womb4t Someone may have already asked this but its too long a thread to find it Are we being given all the same base stats then + whatever implants we have or will they be stacked just on top of how we remapped. Are we being given a remap so we can re apply it how we need since our old remapped skills will be FUBAR The attribute change is real simple. Everything stays exactly like it is today with one exception. The only change is, that the attributes you gained from learning skills will get removed and everyone gets 12 points added to all attributes. Nothing else is changing. You only had 14 remappable points in the old system and everything else was unremappable, this will remain exactly the same in the new system. If you remapped for intelligence, you will be remapped for intelligence after the change. We haven't been promised a remap at this point. The basic balance between attributes stays exactly the same and normal skills aren't affected in any way. In the worst case scenario you might have to extend your current training plan with a few extra skills, if you had learning skills part of that plan. While the changes don't really warrant a remap, we might get one, since there is no real reason not to give one either and it would make the change even more pleasing to the players.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.12.15 17:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Bluemorphium Is there a date, that when i dont spent the SP on any skills, the SP get delete? Or they available, until i spent them to skills? (in 1 or 2 years maybe?) There is no time limit on them.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.12.16 09:11:00 - [13] Originally by: MongoMania Edited by: MongoMania on 16/12/2010 08:53:09 Originally by: Yodayar What CCP Needs to do is to add 1 more attribute point to each base, this would make up for the loss of SP/hour. agree with this. or just give us an additional 1 million SP on top of what was already reimbursed... i bet that keeps everyone happy and quiet on the matter. 5mil SP to distribute didn't stop it, so why would 6mil SP do it? Anything other than equal or faster training speed won't stop the whining, since it doesn't address the issue of slower training speed.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.12.17 00:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Ghorrn Kranthil Edited by: Ghorrn Kranthil on 16/12/2010 17:08:38 Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Originally by: MongoMania Edited by: MongoMania on 16/12/2010 08:53:09 Originally by: Yodayar What CCP Needs to do is to add 1 more attribute point to each base, this would make up for the loss of SP/hour. agree with this. or just give us an additional 1 million SP on top of what was already reimbursed... i bet that keeps everyone happy and quiet on the matter. 5mil SP to distribute didn't stop it, so why would 6mil SP do it? Anything other than equal or faster training speed won't stop the whining, since it doesn't address the issue of slower training speed. well, those 5,3mio are not a generous gift to be happy about, instead they are the sp we already had. so that's quite the least to be done! You aren't fixing the problem. What you are doing is just begging for a gift and ignoring the stated problem. People who had most learnings at 5/5, myself included, got to enjoy the interest of that investment and now got their capital back. How ever you look at it we are much better off now than all the people who didn't train them to max. They just now have the added benefit of not having to endure the pain that was the learning skills and some of us hoped to maintain the little advantage we had in training speed a bit longer. The only two things we can gripe about is slower training speed and wasting our time doing the learning grind. Out of those two the learning speed reduction is the only legit one. Wasting our time gripe is BS, since we got the benefit of faster training and got our SP back in full. Getting more SP was the reason we endured it and it payed off, but now it stopped giving any advantage. It was nice to have, but it needed to go and I'm glad it finally did. CCP doesn't think emotional damages caused by bad game design warrants SP reparation though and I agree with them. New players will always have less pointless crap they have to endure and that is how it should be. That is positive progress. On to the training speed gripe. The reduction in training speed is minimal, but it is still a reduction, that could have been easily avoided by simply adding an additional point or two to the redistrutable attributes for everyone. I don't care about it personally, but I can see people getting ****ed about seeing their training times being increased with this change. A SP gift isn't going to take away that feeling, since you still experience your slower training every time you look at your skills. The fact is, that some players learning speed got nerfed and nothing other than buffing it to what it was or above will make that feeling of getting hit by a nerfbat go away. Now people can debate is this issue worth fixing or not and what are the implications. You either give players a boost in attributes or just leave it alone and consider it acceptable collateral damage. Either way is fine by me, but throwing away free SP at the problem isn't going to fix it. Well it might if you threw enough free SP at the issue, but that would cause a revolt in the now content masses, so it isn't a smart option for CCP to choose.

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